Ibu Rahayu's Talk - Questions and Answers

At the Europarque, Oporto Portugal

Talk Ref: 99 OPO 1

Provisional Translation by Raymond Lee

Brothers and sisters whom I respect, I give thanks to Almighty God that I can meet with all of you again and that we can do latihan together and listen to the explanations I will give about the spiritual path of Subud.

And I really appreciate that many of you have come a long way to be together here with the members in Oporto to do this.

Brothers and sisters, I am going to repeat some of the explanations about the spiritual way of Subud that Bapak has explained many times before in Bapak's talks. So don't think that I am going to tell you something new, but look on this as a reawakening or a reminder of what Bapak left for us.

As human beings created by God in this world, we have two responsibilities. The first is to prepare ourselves to do all that is necessary to find the way back to God and the second is the responsibility to meet the needs of our lives in this world.

As we know, human beings live in this world because of the essence of God or the essence of life within a person's being. Both before and after a person is born in this world, this essence of God exists in a person's being, and grows according to their circumstances and their own development in this world.

At the time of the prophets there was no barrier between the prophets, or God's messengers, and the power of God. This was because for the prophets, there was no barrier of the passions, there was no barrier of the material world, so that what they received and did was willed by Almighty God.

But because of the influences of the world as well as from within a person's own being, the connection between human beings and God's power has become weaker and weaker until most people have forgotten it.

This is why the latihan, which was first received by Bapak, is a gift of grace that is completely unexpected and cannot be grasped by the mind because it is the will of God. Because this contact that Bapak received was not for Bapak alone, but Bapak received that it could be passed to all people who need to worship Almighty God through the spiritual path of Subud.

And it was not just the contact, but Bapak received this contact complete with everything that is needed for it - with the meaning, the content and the purpose of the latihan.

This spiritual process can be divided into purification, awakening and growth, and spiritual preparation.

Because of the influences within our being from the companions that God gives us to help us live in the world, we not only need to bring our own self to life, but also the companions which always participate in our life in this world.

What we call companions are, as we know, the forces below the human force, which we call the material forces, the vegetable forces and the animal forces. And it is these companions which give you human form and fill your life in this world with everything you need.

The process of purification on this spiritual path is to teach us or guide us to live in this world free from, or not controlled by, the forces which accompany us. As human beings, we are responsible for organising these forces within us, so that we are not carried away by these companions.

This process of purification which we have all experienced in strong and mild forms, depends on ourselves, as the purification may be in the form of an experience which you may not be aware of, or where you have to sacrifice something and you are trained or tested as to the extent of your patience and resolve and how far you have faith in facing everything.

For this reason the latihan has no limit or end to it, as the preparation for growth takes a long time and your individual growth depends on each one of you.

And, as I said earlier, the process of uncovering this essence of God or cleaning it of all the influences that have covered this essence for years, cannot be forced or made to go faster. During this purification there is no theory that you can apply to force your soul to come to life.

This is because what comes from God can only be touched by God's power. It is the power of God that will clean you, that will make you grow and that will prepare you. This means that it is enough for you to present yourself with full faith and patience to receive whatever God will give you.

Because through the latihan you are moved, you are cleaned and you are filled by a power which you don't necessarily understand. But one by one, every part of you is brought to life so that you can feel, you can understand and you are aware of what you receive.

So once your inner self is alive, you will be able to know what God gives to you. But if your being is not alive yet, how can you know if God guides you or if God gives you something? This means that we have to prepare ourselves so that we will be aware of what we receive with our full consciousness.

And the only way to do this is with the latihan. Perhaps many of you feel bored and wonder why the latihan is only movement, as if this spiritual path is meaningless. But perhaps you don't realise that by making these movements you have made progress in your life. This is because your spiritual training does not just go on in the latihan, but it spreads and affects every part of your daily life.

So, your spiritual progress, as I just said, does not need any kind of theory or method to speed up or improve your receiving in the latihan.

This is because whatever you obtain outside, meaning it is not from the power of God, but it comes from the human heart and mind, is limited to this world and you cannot take it with you when you (die). . .

This is why in Subud we are discouraged from combining our worship of God with anything from outside. Because you may not know or realise where the other powers come from.

Indeed, there are many powers outside of us and if a person worships these powers or seeks the help of these powers or forces from the low forces below our own human level, they will interfere with your worship of Almighty God.

It is not a problem if some of you rely on this kind of thing to help you in your daily life or to earn a living. Because, as with other professions, you only use it to help you in your work. But this does not mean that I encourage you to use what you have in your latihan. I mean, for example, types of healing or sport. Because many of you now, seeing the state of the world, many try to find a way to help or assist others, but the purpose of their work is to earn a living and it's not for their worship of God.

This is even more important if you are a helper. If you practice these methods in the latihan and you influence other members who in truth hope to find the right way for their lives, but you mislead them when you perform your duties - you commit two mistakes. The mistake to your own self and the mistake you make to the person you influence.

This is because although this spiritual way looks simple, as everyone who does latihan makes movements in their latihan, but once you touch the human soul and influence it improperly, when in fact each soul has its own path. there will be a conflict in that person. This creates a conflict in their being. And this conflict does not just make it more difficult for that person, but it can also result in them going backwards.

The reason I say go backwards is that God created us as human beings so God naturally expects us to return to God as a human being. But instead, through their own actions, they don't return to their rightful home, but they follow the forces or powers that helped them to the realm of those forces.

For this reason God always sends Messengers to remind human beings that they should not become too involved with the forces which always tempt them.

And if you question or doubt whether this latihan is truly from God, whether it is really from God, in fact you don't need to ask. Just look at or examine your own latihan and see whether you have found the truth or whether you have found what you are looking for in Subud.

Because it is through the latihan, through this guidance that we call God's guidance, that you are taught, you grow and you are developed to be able to find your own truth. So don't live like a machine, but whenever you do something check whether it is really from your soul. Is what you do truly your own? In this way you will feel that you are really 'you'and that what 'you' do is from your own creation through the power of God.

Because without knowing it, with the latihan we are trained from within. So this latihan is just the training. Indeed it is a training for you through your movements. Your movements may seem meaningless to you, but if your movements are willed by God, every movement has a meaning.

It's the same with the sounds you make. Although you don't understand what the sounds are, even though you don't, God does understand these sounds or the feeling within that sound.

So you don't need to question what you do in the latihan, just receive it. To question means that you wonder, "Why am I saying this? Why am I making this noise?" That's not necessary. Because the sounds you make are often part of your purification.

But when it's time, when you are prepared - for example your feet are prepared to receive, your hands are ready, or your head, or your mind is ready to receive because your thinking has come to life, then if God so wills, the parts of you which are filled with life can bring you happiness in this world and the next.

This is what we mean by a complete human being. Complete means you can receive whatever God gives you. So then, after we leave behind what we have in this world, we will have something in the next.

Indeed the way to God is very far if we think about the distance, but it is very close if we make no distinction between "I" and God.

This is what I have to say about this spiritual path. In fact, there are no teachers in Subud. The teacher is inside you. If in Subud there are helpers, they only deal with the arrangements for the latihan. This doesn't mean that they are kejiwaan helpers. So don't think that because you have become a helper that you have a high soul. Even though you are a helper, you still have much to do to develop yourself. So don't waste time on disputes or disagreements in your helper's work.

This is why Bapak set up helper's groups, so that spiritual matters don't become a problem between one helper and another. Instead the helpers must find a common feeling in the helper's group.

Because the spiritual is very broad in scope (missing).Podium translation: and there are many experiences and the experiences in the process of their soul can be many different experiences. So if each helper depends on his own experience in how to explain Subud and so on, there will be no common group or unity at all. It will be more and more diverse.

This is why I advise that we still need the guidelines that Bapak left for us. Both what we have in Bapak's talks as well as in Bapak's book Susila Budi Dharma. This book contains everything about the latihan. In fact, it is a must for helpers to read or have read Bapak's explanations. Many of you think that because we worship God directly we don't need to pay attention to Bapak's advice.

I say this because the helpers can be called the gateway to Subud. I use the word gateway because it is the helper's job to open new members, it is their job to give correct explanations to people who want to join Subud.

But the reality is that even now there are still many disputes and there is no harmony among the helpers. Naturally this damages the growth of Subud, because many members, who do not get proper attention, feel disappointed and leave Subud.

Also people outside Subud, who have not joined yet, have doubts because of the disharmony in Subud. So although this is not a helper's meeting, I hope that we will guide each other. Because it is not certain that a helper is more experienced than a member. So to ensure the members are looked after, as I have just said, when one helper cannot answer a question, deal with it with all the helpers acting as a group. Then you can handle problems together.

Well, I don't want to continue this explanation about this spiritual way. I will give some time for anyone who wants to raise questions. Even if you are not from this group, ask if there is anything we should discuss together. I hope I will be able to answer your questions. But don't raise personal problems, just questions about Subud. Because questions can raise new issues, as from my side I have nothing more to say.

Questions and Answers

Q: How can we overcome the difficult part of getting rid of ourselves.I find sometimes that it's more difficult, maybe because we do the latihan, sometimes it's so hard to get rid of our self interest, of our fears. You know, how can we do that step - it's so hard sometimes, you know to overcome and to really find something else that is beyond ourselves, and serve a higher purpose, a noble.how can we do it, because I always feel that we are stuck on that, it's so difficult?

Ibu's Reply: Well, this is because of lack of surrender. When we surrender, there cannot be any kind of self interest interfering. If there is self interest (hopes, or expectations), this only makes it more difficult. To surrender means that you will accept whatever God gives you. So even though you make an effort, or try to do something, you do it without self interest. There is no self interest to get in front of what God wants to give to you.

It's as if, when we surrender, a way forward opens up, but if we still have self interest, the way closes. So how do you do this.through the latihan. When you do latihan always ask God for guidance so this feeling that limits you disappears.

Q: What is best to be done and how is it easiest to overcome if you either want to pray or to do latihan and something comes in between. There always seems to be something coming up which is quite important to do, let's say, but it happens quite often and well, sometimes you can overcome it, but what is the best thing to do if this happens?

Ibu's Reply: Well, if something interrupts you, it doesn't matter, providing you are not hoping to be interrupted. We need to put aside what disturbs us because sometimes this is a test.

Q: Quite a few people ask this question, it's not only for me .

Ibu: Well, if you have stop the latihan, it's OK, as you can continue at another time. This latihan is always conscious, so if we can't do it at that time we can do it the following day or whenever.

Q: When we, for instance, see our mistakes or that we hurt somebody, and we are aware of that, is it OK just to do the latihan and surrender, or is it better that we ask forgiveness for that for help in relation to that? Is it to ask too much? Are the latihan and surrender enough, or should we ask a bit more..

Ibu's Reply: Yes, we have to put it right. Through our latihan we become aware of ourselves. If we are aware we have made a mistake, we have to correct that mistake. We pray to God to be forgiven and we also ask the person concerned for forgiveness. We don't need to explain why, but we admit we are wrong. Then after admitting your mistake, don't repeat it again. You have to improve so that God will truly forgive you. But if you know you are wrong and you repeat your mistake, God will not forgive you.

Q: In this confused world, I wonder if we would have a better view of our mission of Subud, if we were to quarrel less inside Subud.Sometimes I feel that outside Subud in the world, sometimes people don't understand what is the latihan, what is Subud, we cannot speak about it, and then it's like we lose ourselves, that we don't understand what is the mission of Subud, and then even inside Subud, we make quarrels..

Ibu's Reply: Yes, but we have to realise who Subud is. Subud is just us! If we hope to make people outside Subud become good, because we think we are good, clearly we must become good people first. But if we want to make an impression when we are still not good, how can we give a good example? So Subud is all of us, we are the people that have to do the work. So it is not Subud that is the problem. Subud is only an organisation but the people in it are Subud.

This is why it is easier for us to reach the outside world through Susila Dharma, through SICA, through Subud Youth. It's easier for the wings to touch the outside world. As for the latihan, when people are told about the latihan, they don't understand. "What is the latihan?" But if, through Susila Dharma we have activities which benefit people outside, which help people who need it, they will appreciate Subud. Then they will ask, "What is Subud?" as a result of this initiative by Subud. For example, if there is a school which helps deprived children, and it teaches them well, this will be accepted by the general public. It is something they can see with their own eyes. But if we talk about the latihan, they will not understand. But they can accept the activities of Subud members.

Q: Perhaps this is a little bit personal, but since I have become sick, I have found it very difficult to attend the group latihan and I try to go and force myself, but immediately afterwards I feel to protect myself and leave. Then I just rely on the latihan that arises spontaneously. Should I do something to force myself to go to the group latihan? I only do latihan on my own or with just one other person.

Ibu's Reply: It's not necessary to join the group latihan as you need to be on your own.

Q: I have done latihan in many countries all over the place, in the north and in the south. And I have always seen that when people walk in their latihan, they walk around the latihan hall from right to left. Does this have some inner meaning? (laughter)

Ibu's Reply: Well, it may mean something to you, but it doesn't mean that when we do latihan we have to walk that way. No!

Q: What is the importance of going to group latihan?

Ibu's Reply: When we do latihan together we create an atmosphere together. Because there are many people, the atmosphere is different. This is because we help each other so the atmosphere is different compared to when we do latihan on our own. Sometimes we are not disciplined, you say, "Oh, I'll do latihan at home", but it is not certain that you will, that you won't be disturbed. We are easily interrupted and it's not the same.

So the reasons for doing latihan together are first, we lack self discipline, and second, we generate an atmosphere which truly unites us so that we feel we are helped. For example, those who don't move yet are helped by these conditions.

Q: We know that the S Widjojo Building went through some very serious problems, and this was due to a certain crisis and events in Indonesia. So my question is, were we incapable of receiving and being aware of this time, or is it forbidden to receive or to be aware of this kind of thing?

Ibu's Reply: Yes, in fact we should not link an enterprise to the spiritual. In life, it's as though we are in a river, and we have to follow the current. Even though we make efforts, we have to go where the current takes us. Whether we like it or not, we are affected too. We are not allowed to avoid it, in fact we are meant to experience this fate. So when it happens, we pray to God to be shown a way so that we can receive a dispensation, and we surrender everything to God. But we are not allowed to use fortune telling in an enterprise. Bapak explained that we should do enterprise in the worldly way.

Q: If we are faced with a person in crisis, can we test whether that crisis comes from their ancestors?

Ibu's Reply: It's not necessary. There's no need to test about someone in crisis. They may get angry with you because during a crisis they know more than the person who tests about them.

Q: Often, especially during the month before Ramadhan, people normally say that if anyone is feeling bad, etc. then this is due to their ancestors.

Ibu: There's no need to test. Just do your latihan. Concerning ancestors, it's best not to test about our ancestors. Of course our ancestors have their sins, but we don't need to test, because basically we hope to help them (through our latihan), if we can. But don't instead soil yourself (by testing) about your ancestors.

Q: Perhaps Ibu Rahayu could say something about committees. It's very difficult to find complete teams. Year after year the teams on the national committee and the local committees are very difficult to fill. Perhaps Ibu Rahayu could say something about committee work.

Ibu's Reply: Bapak formed this spiritual association, because to begin with Bapak was on his own, and the group was small and we didn't need an organisation. But with the spread of Subud, we need latihan premises, accountability to the government, and to take care of all the requirements for the latihan. So we need an organisation and the organisation is the vessel or place for people who want to do latihan. And the reason why Bapak always said that there is no difference between the helpers and the committee members is because in fact, both of them have the same task with respect to the growth of Subud. So don't feel that if you work on the committee that you are inferior to the helpers. It's not true. As a committee member, you may be selected some time to be a helper, and as a helper you may be asked to be a committee member. So there is no difference. And those of you who work on committees are expected, as in normal organisations, to do something to develop this organisation and you need to know how to find money for the life of the organsiation.

Q: I was asked to ask if Ibu could speak about the importance of the time that we have to be still and quiet before doing latihan and after.

Ibu's Reply: This is very necessary because we usually come to latihan from our work, or our home, or by crowded bus, and we may be upset by the bus ride. So before we do latihan it's best that we prepare ourselves and become calm.

So we just become quiet so that when we start the latihan we are not thinking about all kinds of problems; (and the reason for being quiet) after latihan is that after a latihan we are in a state where we have not (come back to earth). So we have to collect ourselves. We become normal again so that when we go out we are not still in latihan, but we are normal. But we don't need to be quiet for half an hour - ten minutes is enough.

Q: But some people they don't do even one minute.

Ibu: Well, this is not a problem if they can do it, if they can just stand up and be clear of everything, they don't need to be quiet.

Well, that's enough. It's ten o'clock and some of you have not eaten yet.