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Extracts from Interviews:-
17. Vivianne and Lynelle meet in Stockholm, Sweden
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Were you religious as a child?
I prayed. My family wasn't religious. I think I was the most
religious member of the family. I grew up with my grandparents
and an aunt, who believed in God. She and I had something in
common there.
Do you remember your opening and what it was like?
Yes I got the information about Subud here in Stockholm and then I travelled to Denmark. There were about ten women in the Subud group. I had never heard Latihan before. It was strange to me. Though I wasn't afraid, I wondered a little bit, "What's this?"
Yet after 50 seconds of Latihan I became quite calm inwardly. The Latihan began. I don't think I moved in that first Latihan, but inside I felt something happen. Afterwards people went to a restaurant, men and women together. Everyone was happy and laughing. I was happy, but I wanted to be quiet. I sat there very quiet for the rest of the evening because I felt something important had happened within me.
From Denmark we went directly to Wolfsburg, Germany, where there was a very large group. So I had a good start, one could say, with these big Latihan. Within a period of ten days, I had had five Latihan! I didn't have movement right away but I felt changes inside. It reached my brain. I felt different. It was an unforgettable time, being together with all the members in the group. After that, the Wolfsburg members always wanted me to sing Swedish songs when we met.
When I came back to Sweden from Germany however, I was surprised!
My daughter Ingrid recognised something was very different about
me! She was 20 years of age and already had a little boy. She
was in my flat at the time I arrived home. We greeted each other.
She didn't really know why I had gone to Denmark and Germany.
I had told her briefly that I was joining a 'friendship' organisation.
Friendship?
Yes. Friendship. She looked at me closely and that very evening
she said, "Mother whatever you have gone into now, what you
have started, I feel it is also something for me".
Amazing?
My son who was 17 at the time and still living at home, asked, "Can I also go there and be a member? Can I?" I said, "You have to get some information first". Ingrid and Ragnar got information and both of them went once a week for the usual applicant period of three months. During the next ten months, Ragnar followed us every Latihan evening and sat outside the Latihan room every time we had Latihan. The minimum age for being opened was 18 then. He wanted to join so much that he just waited and waited. He has been a very strong and committed Subud member all his life. He's in his fifties now with a daughter who is in Subud as well.
He was very quiet during that ten-months period and didn't talk;
about what he was experiencing but I could tell things were happening
within him. Ingrid was opened in September 1965 and Ragnar was
opened in December 1965. As I said, I was opened in April 1965.
All three in one year. My younger daughter was only 15 then,
but she came to Subud in 1967. Being in Subud together means
we are not only mother, son and daughters but also brother and
sisters. It makes us very close.
Were you married at the time you joined Subud?
No. The father of my children was not in Subud. But later on,
after being alone for 16 years I met a man. He was interested
in Subud; which was very good, of course. We married in 1974.
He was very committed to Subud. He died in November 1989.
Do you think it is important, when you're in Subud, that
your partner is in Subud as well?
I think it is very good if it happens. But there are very many
people who are good enough to get married. We never know. We
can only see how people behave. I think Subud is not the only
thing. I think God gives grace to people whose souls are open
enough to take it and grow through it, without the contact in
Subud. But we others are so happy and thankful that we have found
Subud. Everything and anything can happen. With Cod's help,
we can do God's Will and many other things we wouldn't have dreamed
of doing.
Are there any out-of-the-ordinary or unusual spiritual experiences
you would care to talk about in your Subud life?
There are many experiences I could tell you about . I have had many over the years and written down some of them. Some I can remember. Some were happy and seemed to show me what a wonderful gift we have in the Latihan. I had an experience with butterflies.
A year after I was opened I went to Austria with a Danish member
and we were there for ten days. One day I was on my own sitting
on a big hill with lots of flowers around me and waiting to go
to the Latihan. There was half an hour to wait. I started to
sing a song, a little gentle melody about butterflies. Suddenly,
lots of orange butterflies came to me. Not just three or four
but ten or fifteen. They sat down on my feet and on my knees
and on my lap and stayed for a long time! It was enchanting!
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further extracts
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In the 1980s I was invited to Poland by Matthew to assist some people who wanted the Subud contact. I went in all 13 times to Poland. Many people were interested and there were many members. Subud was growing at the time.
During those years I had many "vision-dreams" and Bapak
was often in them In one of them, I was on a bus with many people.
I stood up to offer my seat to Bapak and he sat down. Then he
moved so that his head was on my shoulder and he said, "Poland,
yah, yah." It seemed an affirmation that the work I was
doing in Poland was right, that is, in accordance with God's Will.
Fortunately, for a time there was funding for helper travel to
Poland, so I could make those journeys although I paid for myself
sometimes.
When did you first see or meet Bapak?
It was in 1967. My son Ragnar and I went to Wolfsburg where Bapak was giving talks. That was the first time. Before that, I had met Varindra Vittachi, the Deputy-Director of UNICEF. This was in Fredrikstad in Norway in 1965. It was a small meeting there. Varindra was totally dedicated to bringing Subud into the world. Since then I have been in most of the Congresses and met Bapak during my years in Subud.
It is very good for us to have unusual experiences, I think,
but usually the meaning is meant for us as individuals. It is
interesting to listen to the experiences of others and often when
I have listened, I have felt as if I was in the other person's
experience myself! It is not good to boast about experiences
to others although if one is invited to share, it can be very
useful.
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further extracts
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One night recently I was dreaming two embryos were dropped into
my hand. Something new is hopefully growing within me. It seems
that the dreams often come like symbols. Now it has happened
that I have met in an early morning dream Maria, Holy Mary.
What is that like?
Since my childhood I have carried with me some kind of guilt.
Even though I have been very positive, I always had this guilt.
Six months ago, I felt Holy Mary very close to me. I saw her,
not clear but I recognised her and felt it was she. I saw her
head and the veil around her head. She let me understand, in
my dream that "now you are free from the guilt and you will
have more insight and I will be with you". It was a kind
of release.
How wonderful!
Yes it was. And I can feel it now at this moment as I tell you.
This I think is the biggest experience of all. I think we learn
in Latihan to respect the different religions and that there is
truth in all of them. I have always believed in God. Nowadays
at age 76, my belief in God is even stronger after all these years
of Latihan. I don't understand everything, of course, but I have
more understanding about the different religions, which comes
to me direct through contact with the Power of God in my Latihan.
For me, everything is because of the Latihan. Everything.
That's true for me too. When I came into Subud I didn't
have a religion but after nine years of doing the Latihan I was
guided to join the Catholic Church. I could never have accepted
such beliefs before with my mind but with the Latihan I was able
to experience the truth of it for me. It is a priceless grace.
I think all this is true. Nowadays, I have more understanding
of the Catholic Church and of the Holy Mary. Through the Latihan,
I can understand other people a little better and myself too.
I also understand plants and animals as well.
You seem a very wise person, a very humble and loving person.
There is certainly an air of peace and grace about you. For
anyone who doesn't know you, you are like a very young woman,
however old you may be in years.
I am happy to hear that, of course. I don't feel old.
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